From :Parents of ASD AGAINST the very HARMFUL CD treatments to "cure autism": "Observations from the discussion with MMS devotees"
posted on April 29, 2014 by Mela Eckenfels
MMS-advocates delete their contributions often within one day. Probably in order not to be tied to the statements made there when they just say the opposite shortly afterwards. Whoever goes into a discussion with MMS people should make early and often screenshots.
Having skipped the chemistry classes:
Most devotees are overtaxed by High School chemistry, and they cannot even agree on whether the chlorine is bound harmlessly in sodium chlorite (favorite example: saline), or if nevertheless chlorine dioxide is released. Those advocates who confirm the release of chlorine dioxide, describe it in the correct dose as 'completely safe' and 'helpful'.
The "Lemming Reasoning“:
Constantly it is claimed that one cannot know how MMS works without having tried it for oneself. (I maintain that one can certainly know that a jump from the 23rd floor is detrimental to the survival without trying it myself.)
Side effects of MMS are 'good' and 'desirable' and shown as 'cleansing'.
Regularly they point out that drugs such as Aspirin or Ritalin are also quite dangerous and have terrible side effects. But it is always concealed which kinds of side effects they have or where the danger lays. The allegation of dangerousness is thus presented as an established fact that need not be proven.
Information from critics are always referred to as lies, even if they mainly render and comment on what can be found on the MMS pages themselves. Which statements are supposed to be exactly untrue, is not addressed. The assertion of falsehood is thus presented as an established fact that need not be proven.
Anyone who speaks up against MMS is accused of being paid by the pharmaceutical industry. (A rogue who suggests that you ever only accuse other people of what you yourself would do.)
If you point out to the fact that there is no medication for autism and autistics therefore usually take no medication (except for having some co-morbidity), they pretend that 'good' autism is not meant at all,where persons are only a little bit different, but 'regressive autism' that arises after vaccinations or through heavy metals, and in which previously 'healthy' children at once lose skills they already mastered. Needless to say that there is neither a 'regressive autism', nor that individual symptoms are called 'autism'.
Undiscerning sick people:
If the advocates find that autistic people are no good customers of the pharmaceutical industry and defend themselves against the label of autism as a disease, then there regularly comes the reaction, “But nobody forces you to become healthy.” It is argued here as if the autistics only lack insight into the disease, or as if they would turn out effective help against better knowledge because they feel comfortable in their role as sick.
"Are you really sure ...?“:
After some discussion it becomes clear that the MMS devotees utterly lack any knowledge about autism. Mostly the reactions are, “Yes, autism may indeed be an inappropriate example but ... ” “… is there really any knowledge that there is the same cause to all forms of autism?” “… it's all about children who neither RUN nor DANCE, so you must do something about it!”
When the discussion reaches the point where a devotee has no more arguments for an effect of MMS in autism, she/he refers to the fact that parents only want the best for their children and so we must leave them alone. I interpret this as meaning that they knowingly and approvingly accept that parents maltreat their children physically with an ineffective therapy – as long as they do that with MMS.
The language of the devotees is extremely ableistic. Neurodiversity cannot and mustn‘t exist. Anything has to be sickness and to be treated. With MMS, after all.
Threatening, aggressiveness and tearfulness:
Not infrequently MMS advocates also use threatening gestures such as telephone terror, subliminally threatening e-mails or, as observed during the counter demo, conspicuous photographing of the participants.
The tone towards critics becomes aggressive quite fast:
Other devotees become quickly tearful in the discussion and think we should simply let them take MMS in peace. That it is not about prohibiting adults from killing themselves on rates but about protecting defenseless children from maltreatment by delusion, does not get into their heads. They see it as an offensive move against their way of life, and they do not see that the MMS disciples have just gone too far.
Belief in myths:
The knowledge how bacteria or viruses behave in the body and how diseases are fought by antibiotics and other drugs, is present at most in homeopathic doses. This ignorance is proven very impressively by the 'MMS discoverer', Jim Humble, in the video of the NDR [North-German Broadcasting Corp.].
MMS is always referred to as a mild remedy, without ever reaching the knowledge that an agent that is to work against all kinds of diseases instead of fighting a disease specifically is like using a sledgehammer to crack a nut.
Floating change of the position:
The position and the claims floatingly change according to the reasonings of the critics. In case a critic declares that MMS is an oxidant, a devotee will argue that it is of course no oxidant. If a critic argues that the released chlorine dioxide is harmful, an MMS advocate will claim that the chlorine was safely bound in the 'mineral' of sodium chlorite.
Some supporters try to explain why MMS supposedly fights only the harmful bacteria, viruses, and substances but not the necessary endogenous bacterial flora. The techno-maundering they use cannot be refuted by High School chemistry but doesn‘t stand up to any analysis of a chemist. Most of it simply consists of technical terms, thrown together and making no sense. Qualities are attributed to bacteria, cells or even MMS that they do not have.
Even in case of absolutely contradictory statements on the mode how MMS works, the MMS supporters never contradict each other. Even within their circle they try to obscure rather than to enlighten. You will never read phrases like, "No, you misunderstood, the chlorine is not bound but is released ..." in the discussions.
Appeal to the bad conscience:
They especially appeal to the bad conscience of parents with autistic children. One can hear phrases like, “If I had an autistic child, I would try anything and everything to make her/him feel better. I would try MMS for myself and then start with a small dose.” — Here, the waiver of experiments with MMS is presented as the actual neglect; concealing what the 'advice' actually means: unethical, uncontrolled human experiments on the living object or their own child, for that matter, with a hazardous chemical.
MMS supporters like to quote Kalcker and/or Rivera as "demonstrably having cured 150 autistic children, the autism of whom was allegedly caused by heavy metals and/or parasites (in most cases both combined). We don‘t, however, get to know who these children are. Neither names nor hospitals nor hints to proven studies are given. If we start an inquiry we mostly get the answer that we should buy the appropriate books, thus throw money into the money extraction machine of MMS.
At some time during the discussion it is even apparent to the MMS disciples that their ‘facts’ contradict to another and that their claims cannot be proven. Then there follow touching and bumpily formulated stories: “I‘ve been helped by it, for years I wasn‘t able to go to work, and now I can go again. Thank you, MMS”, followed by the statement, “He who heals is right.”
The rumor that autism cannot be treated with medication is mainly spread, according to MMS supporters, because the pharmaceutical industry does not want humanity to find out what additional ailments can be cured with MMS. Sounds legitimate.
Comparing apples and oranges:
In order to prove the alleged harmlessness of MMS, the advocates compare apples and oranges. The external use of bleaching agents, whitening agents and oxidants – for example, when coloring your hair – is compared with taking MMS: “If you let something like that to your hair, it may not be harmful in the stomach at all.” They even resort to the fact that sodium chlorite is used for water treatment. In the discussion it is also repeatedly claimed that commercial Micropur tablets correspond to MMS. That isn‘t correct. Micropur Classic sterilizes water with the aid of silver ions. Micropur Forte employs sodium dichlorisocyanurate (NaDCC or Na(Cl2Icy)) in addition to silver ions.
Here they also overlook the fact that water disinfectants are not intended for everyday use but for extreme situations where contaminated raw water would pose a greater health risk than the ingestion of chlorine compounds. Here, a risk assessment takes place. This makes water treatment products still far from safe.
The assertion that sodium chlorite in any case is included in our drinking water, is fundamentally wrong, too. According to the Stadtwerke Karlsruhe, the drinking water here in our area is only mechanically filtered through introduction of pure oxygen. Only when problems with microbial contamination should occur, the waterworks employ an emergency chloration. Stadtwerke confirmed to me that this is probably the case for most aquatic plants in Germany, as problems with water contamination in our average temperatures occur more rarely than in southern countries. However, there may be exceptions where water providers will have to enforce chlorine due to the origin of the water. However, the dose does not correspond to the amount that is recommended with the use of MMS. The limit for the introduction of chlorine in drinking water in Germany is 0.3 milligrams per liter. MMS users take in many times the amount of that.
A small example to be able to better visualize what a low amount that is: A chocolate bar weighs 100 grams. If it is cut into 100 equal parts, you get bits of one gram each. This piece again cut into 1000 parts, weighs one milligram. You can easily imagine that a drop of MMS probably weighs more than a milligram. For example, a drop of water weighs about 34 milligrams.
On their websites, many German waterworks provide information about the current contamination of drinking water with harmful substances – including chlorine. [...]
Not only that MMS devotees are on war with chemistry, they are with the technique, too. In contrast, they are closer to conspiracy theories.
Most of them can post on Facebook, but they do not understand blog comment systems. That the commentator can certainly see his own commentary, although it has not yet been activated by the blog administrator, immediately leads to conspiracy theories like, “That‘s really NSA-like!”. Knowledge about the interaction of browser cookies and IP addresses does not exist. Even the simple googling of names is titled as "espionage".
*** Recently a German blogger wrote an article about MMS and her experiences with MMS devotees. Sit back, have a cup of tea, its a long read, but very much worth reading .***
In the course of my life and my blogger career, I've already had trouble with many people or organizations, including my own political party. I do not much like to mince my words, and my way not to "coat each wording with sugar icing“ is quickly perceived by many people as a personal attack. Nevertheless my experience of the last few weeks differs from all the disputes, shitstorms, discussions or discourses in which I have participated in the
Whenever information against MMS in a crowd-pulling medium emerge (e.g. on Facebook), a whole pack of MMS devotees is activated immediately, the posts partially identical under different names in various discussions, or produced for the discussions with the help of text modules: Textbook-like astroturfing.
past or in the center of which I‘ve been. That's why I would like to state my observations here.
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